Artist, businessman, lawyer and the second son of former president Joe Biden and his first wife, the late Neilia Hunter Biden, 56-year-old Hunter Biden has lived much of his life in public — though rarely on his own terms. Born in Delaware, the Georgetown and Yale Law School graduate worked as a lobbyist and for investment and advisory firms, and served on the board of organizations including Amtrak and World Food Program USA.
More notably, his story has unfolded through profound loss and addiction, hard-won sobriety, political scrutiny, controversy and a level of public exposure few could endure. Yet the person who emerges today is not defined solely by the most difficult chapters of that story, but by what he has chosen to make of them.
On Tuesday, Sept. 8, activist and award-winning actor Martin Sheen (The West Wing, The Departed) — who’s also battled addiction — sat down with Biden at the latter’s home art studio in Los Angeles for a candid and wide-ranging conversation about resilience, recovery, family, the events surrounding his father’s presidency and the controversies that made his private life public. Most importantly, they discuss where Biden is now, and how surviving the darkest periods in his life gave him the desire and ability to help others find their own way forward.
Martin Sheen: Did you have any aspirations about going into politics?
Hunter Biden: I bet your boys [Emilio, Ramon and Charlie] get the same question. Did they feel like there was pressure to go into the family business? For me, no. I looked at what my dad did and I admired it greatly. I aspired to public service — not necessarily elected office. But when I was almost 3 years old, we were in that [car] accident and it killed my mom and my sister, and [my older brother] Beau and I survived. She always said, “He’s going to be the poet and the painter.” But what I realize now is that I never really had the courage to do that. I always wanted to be a painter. I always wanted to be an artist.
MS: Really? Even when you were a child?
HB: Even when I was a child. I painted my whole life. I have 10,000 sketchbooks lying around. At Georgetown, I took a number of classes. I had a great art teacher but no real formal training. My daughter, Maisy, right now is at the Art Institute of Chicago, in the master’s program for painting. But [I’m] all self-taught.
MS: Did you have heroes when you were a child? Did you go to movies?
HB: If you’re asking if you were one of them, you were. 1970 I was born. So our formative years as kids were the Star Wars years. There was a drive-in [theater] right past Route 1 in Delaware. We’d go there with that old Caprice station wagon. You said Charlie and Emilio are about five years older than me?
MS: Emilio was born in ’62. Charlie was born in ’65. We had all our children very young.
HB: Same with me. My oldest, Naomi, is 32. Finnegan is my middle girl, named after my grandmother Catherine Eugenia Finnegan. [She’s] 28. Then Maisy, my 26-year-old. And Beau [Jr., his son with current wife Melissa Cohen Biden], who is here. And I have a grandson, Willie [Naomi’s son]. They’re in Silver Lake.
MS: Are any interested in painting?
HB: Maisy is an extraordinary painter, and also Beau. I first got clean in June of 2019. And Melissa had the intuition to realize that I needed something to give me a sense of purpose. I always tell people in recovery, it could be running, yoga, gardening, but you have to be able to figure out how you’re going to fill your time and your hands, literally. And for me, it was painting. She got me this table, and for seven years, I’ve painted hundreds of paintings.
MS: Can we talk about that a little bit? Because I have similar experience as a father with children and my own addiction problems as a young adult as well. You and I were talking earlier [about what] very few people talk about when they talk about addiction or recovery, and that is the spiritual aspect that many addicts go through. How often people, when they’re high, say, “Oh, they saw God,” or they saw themselves or realized something. So that the addiction itself was a transcendent experience. And when one is fortunate and courageous enough to get sober, they realize that they can have that experience on their own — when they have a full appreciation of their humanity, their talent, compassion for themselves, because there’s so much self-loathing in addiction. And even after one recovers, you’re always in recovery, right? There’s that sense of gratitude, but also, the longing to make amends.
HB: For people who have not experienced a life-threatening addiction themselves, the question that they have is, “Why?” “Why do you engage in this self-destructive behavior that is not just killing you but all of the people that love you?” And the honest answer is because at first, it worked. That’s that transcendent experience.
The root of my addiction was the feeling of always being alone, even in instances where it was verifiably false. I had an incredibly loving, tight-knit family. A father that adored me and that I adored. And even though we went through the trauma of the loss of my mom and sister, an entire community, particularly my dad’s immediate family, surrounded us with this incredible amount of love, Beau and I. So, the question is, “Why? What was missing?” And I don’t know. But I think that you’re the first person that ever said to me what I believe in the core of my being: that every addict is searching for God. It is a transactional way in which you are led to believe that you’re full. That whatever grace you needed to be able to make it not just through the day, but through life, has been given to you. Until then, it becomes your prison. I was so excited to talk to you, because I love everything you do — not just in terms of film, but the way that you talk about our country and your faith.
MS: I’ve changed my mind about all that.
HB: I’m here to get you back on the right track, Mr. Sheen. But the truth is, I get to come out as seven years clean and sober and talk about my recovery and all of the beauty of it. That whatever didn’t kill me, it made me stronger, and how I made it through all of these attacks and the vitriol and the dehumanization of me in the press. I get to talk about how tough I am — but the people that suffered through my addiction still have deep wounds. One of the great truths is that addiction is a family disease. And thank God for me, I’ve done a lot of work, but more than anything, just received an enormous amount of grace from people.
When Beau died [from glioblastoma, an aggressive brain cancer, in 2015], he was the closest thing in the world to me. We were a year and a day apart. We almost spoke on a daily basis, and we fought like brothers. But there was never a moment in which I didn’t think if I picked up the phone, he would be there. And when I lost him, I lost my way. I went into a deep crack addiction. And you know who else lost my brother? My three daughters, who looked at him like a second father. And in their moment when they needed me most, I was lost in my own addiction. How did faith play a role in your life, in dealing with that?
Credit: Yves BrightMS: It was never not a part of me — even though I was an alcoholic. I was of the generation who didn’t get involved in the drugs because they were too scary. I lost my mother when I was 11. She still lives in a part of me. I can remember the sound of her voice. There were so many of us [10 children]. We had very little time with her alone, but when you were alone with her, it was precious time. When she passed, I couldn’t express the depth of loss to my brothers, and they were equally in the throes of bereavement. My Irish twin was 12, and he and I were altar boys, so we were asked to serve at my mother’s funeral. I felt that I wasn’t permitted to weep, that I had to be strong. And my brother was just breaking down. I wanted him to get over it, saying, “We’re in public now.” He was so broken he couldn’t hide it. And I envied that in him.
That was one of the reasons I think that I was so attracted to acting, because then, I could take on who I really was. You know, I was born Ramón Estévez. I created this Martin Sheen character. But I could always go to Martin when I needed to express my brokenness, my fear, my anger, my disappointment, and that was reflected in my drinking, and that’s what affected the family. They remember things about me I do not remember — that are very painful. So when you say unconditional love, I understand.
HB: I think the biggest conundrum is [that person] you know loves you, but is deeply resentful of the pain you caused — the oxygen you suck out of the room as an addict. I think about it from the perspective of my daughters. I didn’t get into drugs in a hard way until after Beau died in 2015. But before that, I got sober in 2003. I went to the program and it saved my life and gave me the foundation to build what I have today. But in 2010, I relapsed and I hid it. When you start making promises to yourself and other people, and then you break them — you’re “hiding a bottle under the bed” kind of thing — there’s an enormous amount of shame. So for them, the most critical period of my addiction came when I just removed myself. They didn’t know where I was. No one knew where I was. I would say that I was one place, and that I was going off to rehab, and I would be living in motels up and down I-95.
MS: Really? But how? Your dad was just about president then.
HB: No, for most of it he was out of office — he left the vice presidency in January 2017 — so it was mostly in that intermediary time. Beau died in May of 2015. I worked really hard to stay clean and sober for a year. And then between June of 2016 and June of 2019, I slipped into addiction for almost a three-year period, and it was awful. I was drinking so much — almost a quart of vodka a day, along with the drugs. And the risk-taking behavior the drugs caused, subjecting myself to the potential of violence on so many occasions. And I just wasn’t there for them. That absence, I think, is the greatest sin. I was not a violent drunk, but I would remove myself from their lives. And they were older. They were in their late teens and early 20s at the time.
I don’t attend mass as much as I should. But I have a deep faith in what my interpretation of my Catholicism is — that we are all the children of God. We are all connected. And we’re all trying to get back to that connection. The faith that sustains me now is the idea that we are all searching for that. And that’s what painting is to me, that meditation — and it’s an expression of the most beautiful part inside of me.
MS: How far in advance do you plan [paintings]?
HB: I don’t. For a while, I did big paintings that are images from the Book of Kells. Beau [Jr.] loves fishing, so I started drawing him fish. In the first book I wrote, [2021 memoir] Beautiful Things, an owl played a role in saving my life. Then I painted owls a lot.
MS: Now you’ve got a second book.
HB: I hope so. I wrote one from the perspective of what happened after I met Melissa. Did I ever tell you the story?
MS: No, I thought you’d never ask.
HB: This is crazy. I was sitting at a pool and disappearing out here. I literally decided that I was going to slowly kill myself, and these two people walk up and strike up a conversation with me.
MS: Did they know who you were?
HB: No. But they said, “You should meet our friend Melissa.” And I thought, “If they only knew how much they’re wrong. I shouldn’t meet anyone right now.” And the woman said, “Take her number.” And I said, “Sure, I can remember any number, if you just tell me.”
MS: Is that true?
HB: No. So she gives me the number, and I said, “Got it.” About an hour later, I realized I left my book where I was sitting. So I went back out and the woman says, “What’s the number?” I said, “You got me.” And she wrote it in the palm of my hand. So it was about 2 o’clock in the morning. I couldn’t tell up from down. I looked down and said, “This poor girl is probably waiting for my call.” I’m out of my mind. I text, “Hey, your friends gave me your number. You want to get a drink?” And the response I get is, “Who the hell is this? It’s 2 o’clock in the morning. No.”
Then in the morning — even in my insane state — I was like, “That was really rude.” And I said, “I’m really sorry. If you would like a cup of coffee, I didn’t realize the time.” And she amazingly said, “Sure, I’ll meet you for coffee. I live right down the street.” There was a restaurant and [at 5:30 p.m.] she said, “I’m here.” I walked to the table, and I said, “I know enough to know that this isn’t a way to start a conversation, but I’m in love with you.” And I really was. I looked in her eyes when I sat down, and for some reason, I knew that there was my salvation. She didn’t run, and within an hour, I had told her everything. And that radical honesty, it freed my soul. I felt like my [late] brother orchestrated the whole thing. I said, “Look, I have a real problem. I’m addicted to crack.” She said, “That ends now.” And within a few days, the crack stopped. Within a couple weeks, I had my last drink. And within about a week, we got married.
MS: Honest to God, a week?
HB: Yeah. I woke up one morning. I said, “Let’s get married.” And I think she thought, like, in the future. I said, “OK, I’ll be right back.” I went and bought these two rings. In California, you can get married same-day. I called this Ukrainian woman that had a marriage license business and we got married on the roof-deck of [Cohen’s] tiny apartment in West Hollywood. That was more than seven years ago. And then, it was all peaches and cream: Two indictments, a conviction on the front page of the New York Post on a daily basis for four years, a congressional investigation and millions of dollars in debt. But she is amazing.
MS: So, you had two periods of realization or clarity, as we say. And the first was in 2003. Do you still go to meetings?
HB: No, not as much. It was really hard — particularly while my dad was president — because you have four Secret Service agents everywhere you go. But these miracles showed up in my life: Kevin Morris created a team to help me through all of the legal issues. He sustained us, and not just financially, as a friend.
MS: We talked about the documentary that Rachel Maddow’s company made. I saw [MSNBC Films’ 2024 film From Russia With Lev] and it was unbelievable. Do you want to talk about that?
HB: So Donald Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, working with Lev Parnas, went looking for dirt on Joe Biden in Ukraine. Because there’s this conspiracy that I went on the board of Burisma, which was a natural gas company in Ukraine. And at that time, I was of counsel to Boies Schiller Flexner. I worked on corporate governance issues as a lawyer, and I had served on over a dozen boards: [of ] World Food Program USA, Amtrak, Truman National Security Project. I taught at Georgetown in a master’s program at the School of Foreign Service for four years as an adjunct professor. And so, I’m wholly qualified — far more qualified than Eric [Trump] or Don [Trump] Jr. in any endeavor that they’ve ever done. Or Jared [Kushner] for that matter, whose investment firm took $2 billion from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, and who’s now solving Middle East peace for us.
MS: Yeah, he’s worth every penny.
HB: But I took a board position with a gas company in Ukraine. And I have no confusion that what attracted them to me was not just my qualifications, but [that] I was the son of the person that is most known for fighting against the Russians. Because the Russians wanted those gas fields. For more than two of the five years I was on the board, my dad held no office at all. And I never had any power to do anything. But it created this conspiracy that I somehow was taking money and then funneling it through to my dad — which no investigation has ever substantiated. But that’s what Lev Parnas was tasked to do. So he went over to Ukraine and Austria to meet with people like this oligarch Dmytro Firtash and this lawmaker Andrii Derkach. Derkach was later sanctioned by Trump’s own Treasury Department as an active Russian agent. And a declassified 2021 U.S. intelligence assessment found that Putin authorized an operation that used proxies tied to Russian intelligence to push misleading claims about my father to people close to Trump. The goal was to take my dad, who never owned a stock or a bond outside of his retirement account since 1972 — and whose tax returns going back decades are public — and try to turn it into the Biden crime family. And they were incredibly effective. It launched an investigation and they ended up finding that, in the midst of my addiction, I failed to pay my taxes on time for several years starting in 2016, which is common for addicts. When I came out of my addiction, I went to the IRS. I filed my taxes. I paid penalties and interest on everything I owed them, but they still charged me. [On Dec. 1, 2024, President Biden granted a full and uncon- ditional pardon to his son for any federal offenses committed between Jan. 1, 2014 and Dec. 1, 2024.]
MS: Could you share how you were drawn into [the conspiracy], and then how Lev exonerated you?
HB: So Lev has said that people in Ukraine were touting a hard drive they claimed had been hacked from me, and offering it to Rudy Giuliani. Then, strangely, in April of 2019, a laptop appears in a repair shop in Delaware, and the shop owner’s only idea is that instead of getting it back to me, he thinks, “I should call Rudy Giuliani.”
MS: Of course, don’t we all?
HB: That October, Lev and Igor Fruman were arrested at Dulles Airport, about to fly to Vienna. They were charged with campaign-finance crimes. And a couple months later, Rudy Giuliani was doing a TV series on “Biden corruption” featuring Andrii Derkach — the same man Treasury later sanctioned as a Russian agent.
Lev was faced with a real choice after he was charged. He says he got a message sent to him, like, “Shut your mouth and we’ll take care of you.” Igor Fruman pleaded guilty. Lev said, “You want me to take a ‘guilty’? No. I was directed by the president, personally, to dig these things up.” He said, “I won’t shut up,” and so he went to trial, and they convicted him and sent him to prison.
MS: How long did he do?
HB: He was sentenced to 20 months. Then when he got out, he did an extraordinary thing. He said, “Look, we went over there and we figured out very quickly that the people we were talking to were Russian propagandists, and they worked directly for the SVR and the GRU. This was an operation and we were sent to find dirt on Joe Biden and his son, and we didn’t find any.” He not only said that on TV in interviews, but he went before Congress and testified under oath, while he was still under supervision and could be remanded to prison. But none of it mattered to [Trump’s camp]. They had a narrative and they decided they were going to stick with it, and they still do. And it’s amazing how effective it has been for a certain segment of this country.
MS: You only have to sow some doubt.
HB: Yeah. And then they had this October [2020] surprise: a laptop. The laptop. It became ubiquitous, “Hunter Biden’s laptop,” and it became about freedom of speech. The story was supposedly “suppressed” — Twitter blocked links to it for a couple of days under its hacked- materials policy, and separately took down nude pictures of me that people were sharing. But then it became about disinformation on our part. You can still go online and read years of my emails and text messages. And here’s the thing — they went through every communication on it, even deleted voicemails, and no one has ever found evidence that my father took any action on behalf of someone that I was being paid by. And instead of being exculpatory, however, it became the symbol of perceived corruption.
I don’t know of a more corrupt president in history. And so, I decided about six months ago that they built this platform to basically throw tomatoes at me in the public square, and to beat the hell out of me for five years straight. And at the end, when they had all walked away after he got reelected, I was still standing and I still had that platform. And I had a lot of people that I could talk to, that are sick and suffering, that are deeply lost in their own addictions. And that’s the whole purpose of all of this: to share my story, to let them know “you’re not alone.”
MS: And Lev wanted to talk to you.
HB: I got a call from Rachel’s producers. They said, “Lev Parnas wants to apologize.” And that was the first time we met, on camera. I thought it took great courage. Although he had been the principal player in torturing me — for years — if I expect to be granted grace from the people in my life as I seek amends, I think it’s incumbent upon me to grant [that] grace.
MS: Where do you go from here?
HB: Well, [I’ll] keep talking about the things I’m 100% qualified to talk about, and that’s recovery. That’s addiction — the way addiction impacts a family. To give people hope that their story is not so outside of the realm of coming back from. I’m working with a group called Peak Path Health here in Los Angeles, and I’m trying to [start] up a foundation to offer free aftercare. After you do your 30 days, a lot of people don’t have the means to sustain their recovery. I also work with a group in Southern California called Basta Universal, which is a homeless prevention organization and legal aid society for tenants — mainly for families that are being unfairly evicted. And then I’ve got a lot of other things that I stir the pot [with].
MS: Does it include getting your law license renewed?
HB: Maybe one day. But one of the gifts that my recovery gave me is that [belief in] “all in its time.” I have an enormous amount of patience. I’m incredibly grateful. What I do is, I paint. The thing I think of myself, more than anything, is I’m an artist.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Photography by: Yves Bright; Wardrobe: Michael Fusco; Wardrobe Stylist Assistant: Rachel Cocca; Grooming: Patrick Santa Ana; Jewelry by Lionel Thunercloud/Navajo Silversmith
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